Axis Wakeboard Boat Forum

Chattwake's build pics are on wakeworld. Thing looks pretty sick. all white boat/tower with black Vandall graphics. Powdercoated white z5 as well.

Mine has done it from day 1, too, and it does it regardless of how long it has been off. It it were bleeding pressure, it should fire right up after a shut down. To me, it seems like it is having a hard time synching CID.

King, please explain?

Has anyone with a newer engine chimed in yet that this is 'resolved' --scratch that-- Improved?

what he's talking about is the amount of time and the number of crankshaft revolutions it takes for the pcm to recognize cylinder 1 and determine tdc on the compression stroke for that cylinder, the 5.7 335 indmar uses a very old design so the cranking characteristics of that setup would be similar to general motors trucks and suv's in the 1994-1998 years when they used the exact same ignition system. it uses a single phase sensor in the distributor for camshaft reference and a reluctor wheel behind the harmonic balancer for crankshaft reference. The 6.2 ls3 they offer as the 450hp option has a much better design in crankshaft sensors and therefore should start quicker, The pcm on the later model design responds much faster too. Both are very dependable designs, but they will have completely different cranking characteristics that you just have to adapt to, to an extent, Im trying to get time to go compare and test some things on arlen's boat, hopefully this weekend I can get him some answers, he wasn't there last week.

THANKs Walter for the very clear explanation. For those as engine novice as me Ill share my goggling:
"TDC" is "Top-dead-center"
"PCM" is "powertrain control module" - I think this synonymous with the ECM (Engine Control Module) in boats?

I swapped messages with an indmar engineer and he thought the AR335 had a "smart start" feature - a momentary key flick to the start position would engage the starter as long as the ECM thought necessary. A brutforce solution to this starting issue. This newer MEFI5 ECM firmware version also has start lockout while engine is running.

My 2010 had neither of these features - Im curious if the newer Axis 335s do. If so, I might put a new ECM on my wishlist.

I will have to check on the smart start, I have not noticed such a thing though.

my 2011 335 has no starting issues... is this only on 09-10s? mine fires immediately when cold or hot

Sorry, yeah, I used to do engine development for Ford, so I throw out SAE terms without thinking. CID is Cylinder Identification. There's a wheel on the crank that has triggers in it. On a Ford system, it'll be teeth every 10 degrees of crank rotation, with a missing tooth (therefore known as a 36-1 tooth wheel) for CID. On Bosch systems, it is every 6 degrees, with two missing teeth (60-2).

At any rate, the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) needs to see that missing PIP (Profile Ignition Pickup) so it knows when to tell the coils when to fire. I assume it works in batch* mode for fuel injection, and is putting fuel in the cylinders, regardless. But it may not put fuel in until it sees #1 come around. It could be that the batch injection is poorly calibrated, and it isn't putting in enough fuel. Regardless, once it is synched, it runs fine.

Batch means it triggers the fuel injectors four at a time, regardless of valve opening, etc. Sequential fires each injector relative to the crank position. As duty cycle (amount of time open) frequently is 70-90%, sequential has no real performance benefit, really only an emissions one. But as with the spark, if it runs sequential, it can't add fuel until it knows where the crank is. In that case, it requires a cam sensor (cam rotates 1/2 revolution per crank revolution).

my 2011 does not have this feature. i have to hold the key unitll it starts. mine also doesn't matter if its hot or cold, its kinda embarrassing cause at times i have had 8-10 sec start times. with a min of 4 sec usually. and i even try to prime the fuel system on cold starts. doesn't seem to matter.

Mine in not that severe, but anyone trying to start it other me doesnt hold it long enough and takes two tries to start. I also do occasionally get asked if my batter is weak because it takes so long to start....